A short conversation about Stuart Murray William's new book - Planting Churches, A Framework for Practitioners
by Adam Eakins and Timothy C. Aho
Adam: Well as someone who has planted a church in the past and hopes to do so again in the future this book caught my eye as something worth reading. I hoped it would be of value and a help to me in my thinking and practice.
Tim: Along with another couple, my wife and I planted a church in a new build area near Birmingham. We finished that role three years ago. Early last year we started thethirdplace, a simple or home-based church with a view to planting a network of simple churches. I read Planting Churches late last year as part of some work I'm doing on a Doctor of Ministry degree. What did you think of the book?
Adam: This is definitely the book I wished I could have read before I began church planting. It definitely would have helped me avoid some of the mistakes I made on the way and would have given me far greater insight into what I was letting myself into.
Tim: I agree. While none of us who enter this adventure of church planting really know what we're doing, having a friend on the journey is really helpful! And not just any friend, but someone who's walked a similar journey. As the subtitle suggests, the focus is on application informed by theological and biblical reflection.
Adam: Before I got started on my church planting journey, many of the books that I read at the time were great on the theology or the 'logys' of church planting but did not have the nuts and bolts approach which this helpful book has. The other great advantage of the book was that it was written for a British context where as so many previous books were not. It becomes very clear that this book is not pushing an agenda (other than the need for church planting) that church planting must be done this way and not that.
Tim: As an American who has lived in the for UK 15 years, I'm familiar with the challenge of thinking missionally and contextually partly because I have to keep challenging my own assumptions and presuppositions about church, culture, and forms of church planting. We can't wholeheartedly adopt church planting processes and templates whether they come from America or China. Stuarts' approach tries to go beyond that.
Adam: Yes, it seeks to give as wide an overview as possible of all church planting and never uses church planting jargon without explaining the meaning behind it. It makes everything very accessible and could become a church planter's handbook, a valuable resource to turn to time and time again.
Tim: What's something that caught your attention?
Adam: I was very interested in Stuart's analysis of church planting today which includes a review of where we have been so far. One aspect that I would like to further reflect on is the whole idea of incarnational verses attractional. Some people have totally dismissed the attractional model. I once heard Mike Frost give a wonderful send up of the guys at the pub waiting until the church got it just right before they started attending; his point being that people are not waiting for the church to be just right for them before they start coming. I have struggled with the 'attractional model' and moved more towards an 'incarnational model'. However Stuart argues for both (pages 11‑13) drawing on the 'come' and 'go' dimension in mission. I found Stuart's thoughts on this very insightful and enabled me to begin to see a way of walking the tightrope of both. However, ‘does this work in practice' would be the big question for me. Does the book do enough to address this challenge with which many church planters and established church leaders I know wrestle? It seems hard to authentically balance both. Is that right? How would a church planter avoid just being attractional or incarnational?
Tim: Wow, good questions. That discussion caught my attention too, because I hadn't reconciled in my own mind the dynamic tension between the two. I suppose it's another example of not either/or, but both/and, do you think?
Adam: So how about you? What in the book grabbed your attention?
Tim: Any discussion on ‘what is church' and ‘what kind of church are we planting' gets a second look from me. Because thethirdplace is so different than what we did in our previous church experience, I keep coming back to this question over and over again. It seems to me that while there is more cloning than planting in our western context, undertaking either (cloning or planting) without critical theological and biblical reflection on these questions is surely premature at best. I appreciate the attention Stuart gives to these questions, and his approach seems sensible. At the same time, I also struggle with it because the approach still seems so western and corporate (in the business sense).
Adam: What do you mean?
Tim: Well, I heartily agree with Stuart's sentiment on page 64 that the missional question precedes the ecclesial question (that is, finding what God is up to and joining him, followed by what kind of church can creatively and effectively participate in this mission). I wonder sometimes if we didn't spend enough time thinking through these questions in our previous church plant experience. But I also wonder if the kind of church which is planted from this western approach is sterile because of its complexity. I mean, I keep coming back to the idea that a church should reproduce. Complexity is not easily reproducible. I suppose I would have liked to see more discussion on what it might be like to see church planting churches in the British context.
Adam: Yes, it is so easy to fall into the trap of doing church and lose our missional edge. Do you think that for a large percentage of churches it is enough of a struggle to maintain what they have to even be thinking of planting? There are dangers in this of course and I think the book makes a good case of outlining them.
Tim: In any event, I think this is a must-have book for church planting practitioners and those providing coaching and mentoring for church planters.
Adam: I completely agree and will be referring back to it many times in the future.
Tim: Thanks for the conversation!
Adam: Cheers, good to talk.
